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Αυτοκαθορισμός

Δευτέρα, 10 Ιουλίου 2017

Mosul Is Liberated! - Moon of Alabama


July 08, 2017

Mosul Is Liberated! My Congrats To Iraq

The people of Iraq have won the biggest battle in the very bloody fight against the nihilists of the Islamic State:
Elijah J. Magnier‏ @ejmalrai - 11:59 AM - 8 Jul 2017 #Mosul fully liberated and #ISIS is defeated in the city. Well done #Iraq.
My congratulations to the Iraqi men and women who achieved this.
The pest shall come down on those Gulf dictators who financed the growth of the sectarian "Sunni resistance" in Iraq and Syria. The Obama administration, which intentionally let ISIS grow for its own perfidious aims, the Turkish wannabe Sultan who pampered it and the "journalists" and "experts" who hailed ISIS and alike criminals along shall join them in hell.
Islamic State remnants will continue to exits but the organization is now degraded to a mere guerilla that will no longer threaten the existence of any state. It will eventually die out.
Posted by b on July 8, 2017 at 08:54 AM | Permalink
Comments
is this why USA rushed to accept a ceasefire, to save the Zionist and their subservient countries. The battle was won without Russia leading the forces like in Syria, we should thank the IRGC and PMU for their steadfastness. God bless the people in their trust.
Posted by: papa | Jul 8, 2017 9:10:13 AM | 1
Good news. It makes you wonder how Iraq could have lost Mosul in the first place.
Posted by: Curtis | Jul 8, 2017 9:20:09 AM | 2
It's time to correct the MSM propaganda:
“Yes, Aleppo Was Liberated”
Posted by: virgile | Jul 8, 2017 9:35:23 AM | 3
- As long as the iraqi government remains very, very corrupt, I don't see how there can be an unified Iraq again. Unless we see one Muqtada Al Sadr re-surfacing (again). That's the only hope for Iraq.
- Mosul may have been "liberated" but how much damaged is the city ? And how money is the government in Baghdad willing to give to the city for reconstruction. And how much of that money will be spend on "corruption" ? No, the "Fall of Mosul & Raqqa" are just one chapter in an ongoing (military) "struggle" in the Middle East. Then the question become: What's the next conflict ?
- The US and a number of other countries have doled out A LOT OF weapons in Syria and Iraq. The remaining weapons will be used in the next conflict in Syria, Iraq, Turkey, etc.

Posted by: Willy2 | Jul 8, 2017 9:43:11 AM | 4
Well the New York Times doesn't think it's over in Mosul yet:

In Syria, American-backed militias have surrounded Raqqa, the group’s capital, and breached its historic walls. Across the border, Iraqi forces have seized the remains of the Mosul mosque where Mr. Baghdadi appeared and besieged the remaining jihadists in a shrinking number of city blocks.

And the western MSM continue to ignore that the major fighting against ISIS in Syria is being carried out by the SAA and its allies.
Meanwhile, this was followed by a very sinister comment:
But the loss of its two largest cities will not spell a final defeat for the Islamic State — also known as ISIS, ISIL and Daesh — according to analysts and American and Middle Eastern officials. The group has already shifted back to its roots as an insurgent force, but one that now has an international reach and an ideology that continues to motivate attackers around the world.

How do the analysts, and American and Middle Eastern officials know this? Because the analysts are mostly on the KSA's payroll, American officials have used ISIS and the Middle Eastern officials (most likely Israeli and/or GCC) have supported and funded ISIS in the past and know they will continue to do so. And Daesh has already spread to KSA but many will no know that because Egypt was bribed to the block declaration of Daesh in KSA as a terrorist organization. Meanwhile, it looks increasingly likely that the Russians really did kill al Baghdadi but the western MSM still treat him as alive.
Posted by: Ghostship | Jul 8, 2017 10:36:32 AM | 5
@Willy2 | Jul 8, 2017 9:43:11 AM | 4
Fully agree with you.
If it is "liberation" than it is very sad one! The Iraqi society is mired in sectarianism. The Nation Building by the White Man has not worked in Iraq and nowhere else. Finally expecting anything from the White Man, along with their compradore class, yet liberal/fascist is exercise of futility. Some societies has learned and some has not from its historical memory.
Various Iraqi PMU and militias (since Army miserably failed) are rather look alike a death squad than as a liberators. Similar process has taken hold in Syria too. Some brigades (Desert Hawks) and corps are on payroll of "entrepreneurs", kind of public-private partnership known in the US, Blackwater comes to mind. The Russian version is Wagner which is active in Syria.
So now this no liberation it is just misery for the Iraqi people, if they call themselves Iraqis at all. Ruined city will be left to itself, weak or poor governance and corruption is what is guarantied in times to come. Suicide bombers for sure in times of celebration and mass gathering.
This is a legacy of the White Man. The White Man imbued with hate and racism while its empire is in slow and certain decline.

Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jul 8, 2017 11:30:53 AM | 6
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47386.htm
If, and when this process is complete the world will be better place.
Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jul 8, 2017 11:34:29 AM | 7
"ISIS" will continue to exist as a proxy army elsewhere. It was transplanted to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban, and to the Philippines to punish their lèse–majesté. It has no future as a guerilla force, since the people who operate it hate guerillas and don't seem to understand guerilla war. Al-Ciada will continue to car bomb the recalcitrant natives for the foreseeable future.
Posted by: Jesrad | Jul 8, 2017 11:35:55 AM | 8
Nov 20, 2015 The One Thing You Need to Know About ISIS
'America please wake up'!
https://youtu.be/vkxFT_hJCdQ
Posted by: Brian | Jul 8, 2017 11:39:47 AM | 9
One can only hope that b's optimistic forecast about the rapid demise of IS is correct. I keep thinking of the Second Chechen War. It took the Russians about 6 months in 1990 to dislodge the Chechen terrorists from the cities and towns but the subsequent guerilla war lasted another 10 years. It is estimated that there are still over 4 thousand Chechen fighters in Iraq and Syria. Will the Gulf states and the CIA stop supplying the jihadists simply because they are going underground?

Posted by: ToivoS | Jul 8, 2017 11:48:32 AM | 10
And now we have the single most important turning point in Syria's war against foreign terrorists:
Does Iraq have the ability to kick the US Regime out immediately?
I believe we all know the answer.
Which is very sad and will cost most likely tens of thousands more innocent Syrian and Iraqi lives.
Posted by: R Winner | Jul 8, 2017 11:48:54 AM | 11
Prediction:
Jordan will suddenly have an incredibly convenient outbreak of IS that:
* Is magicallly confined to the north of Jordan and not anywhere near the Israeli Regime
* The US Regime immediately declares an immediate, massive, and completely ineffectual war against
* The US Regime propaganda will ramp up blaming Syria for 'IS crossing into Jordan'
* The US Regime will use to oust whatever Iraq politiciens that aren't complete US Regime lackeys due to claims of working with IS in Iraq
* The US Regime will declare the right to bomb anywhere in Syria and Iraq to 'protect their ally Jordan'
* Much of eastern Syria and western Iraq will be declared US 'safe zones' to protect Jordan
Posted by: R Winner | Jul 8, 2017 11:59:20 AM | 12
The best thing to come out of this is the Russian military has clearly become a very effective force in the middle east. Working in cooperation with Syria, the Iraqi government, Iran, and Hezbollah to push back the empire's shock troops and draw a line in the sand for US intervention. That is a huge win for Russia and the Shia Islam countries. The US has been spreading death, destruction, and refugees for over a decade in the middle east and had looked well on the way to destroying Syria. Much like in Chechnya Russia retaliated and put an end to Western imperial designs. It is really a big win for them.
Posted by: goldhoarder | Jul 8, 2017 12:14:42 PM | 13
sounds positive b... i like to be positive too... however, i am in agreement with many of the posters observations here which are much more cynical and to my way of thinking - realistic too... the iraqi and syrian people have been put thru hell thanks the combo of international forces that want to fuck them over.. i don't see those same forces packing up and withholding the finances, war goods and etc that they have collectively given into this area... things will change, but i can't see the main players changing their ways... it will morph into something/somewhere else and of course it ain't over in syria yet by a long shot..
and yeah - aleppo was liberated, but you won't read about that in the bullshit press.. rah, rah america... fuck, i hate that shit..
Posted by: james | Jul 8, 2017 12:16:51 PM | 14
Brian @ 9: Thanks for the video. Sad part is, that, as of now, the U$A's policies haven't changed.
Down the road, we'll see...
Posted by: ben | Jul 8, 2017 1:37:22 PM | 15
I think I have a different "calculus". Everything depends on whether or not the US attacks North Korea. If it doesn't, the generals will pull a gradual Vietnam-style retreat from Syria. Maybe never a real, complete withdrawal, but the Syria adventure will fade away.
The US has exactly two choices with North Korea: Kill millions of Koreans, perhaps tens of thousands of US and "allied" troops, perhaps wind up with 50+ Fukushimas in Japan, and heaven knows what else. Or not. But Syria will essentially be off the table. Interesting times indeed.
Posted by: blues | Jul 8, 2017 1:42:07 PM | 16
the americans have no fucking business being anywhere near korea - north or south... there rationale for all of it is complete bullshit.. it is like they want to murder more innocent people with their terrorist / security concerns... build a wall around the usa and keep them all inside of it - that is the usa mentality at present - lockdown america... i hope the revolution comes quickly for the poor suckers and especially that they stay home and work out their own shit instead of meddling in the affairs of the rest of the world.. james - tell us how you really feel, lol..
Posted by: james | Jul 8, 2017 2:46:18 PM | 17
@2 Curtis
Mosul fell because the big tribes, former Baathists/Naqashbandi all got together and agreed. Then the al-qaeda in iraq organization pushed them aside/absorbed them and took over.
The Iraqi army was completely unmotivated and the US purposefully withheld support and intelligence to Iraq, to punish them for ejecting the US military. See Obama's quote re: pressure on Maliki. You can also see the US military witholding all the combat aircraft that could have been used to smoke those mile long ISIS convoys.
Remember that Iraq was so bereft that they gladly took some 30 year old SU-25s from Iran, and got a rush order on more old SU-25s from Russia. They were using heavy lift helicopters as frontline combat aircraft because the door guns and sometimes rockets were the best they had.
It wasn't until last year that the long promised f-16s finally arrived.
As Elijah J. Magnier said, it took the formation of a force equally devoted to a cause to face the fanaticism of isis without flinching. The PMU saved Baghdad and prevented further loses. American air support, coming in a real sense only once Maliki was deposed, helped the regular army make good progress.
As you know, they left ISIS untouched in Syria, Russia having to shame them into real action after in one day, taking out more targets than the USA's daily token bombing of a tank or technical per had destroyed in a month.
Posted by: Pespi | Jul 8, 2017 3:59:28 PM | 18
Apparently ISIS are being transferred to the Hindu Kush. That is a part of Afghanistan that juts out across the northern part of Pakistan. (bit like a "peninsula")
Guess what ; the Chinese new Silk road would have to pass through the area. ISIS effectively cuts the Chinese built port in Southern Pakistan from going northwards and supplying the Chinese with oil etc. Co-oincidence? The US is sending more troops and expects to be in Afghanistan "forever".
I guess the Chinese will not be so happy about that. (Seems more like a new CIA plan to me)
Posted by: stonebird | Jul 8, 2017 4:08:14 PM | 19
@stonebird #19
Apparently ISIS are being transferred to the Hindu Kush.
Co-oincidence?
I keep thinking back to the early days of the high production value IS execution and propaganda videos. Most of them made no sense from a religious fanatic point of view. They were almost commically over the top in their violence and brutality.
Like they were designed by some PR company with the goal of making them the ultimate cartoon evil.
And when mixed with as far as I know, and would love to be corrected if wrong, that IS has never attacked or taken any actions that aren't in 100 percent sync with the US Regime neocon war plans.
They playbook seems to be:
1. Create over the top terror group
2. Establish their brand as being so toxic that anyone claiming that the terror group is working with the US Regime is easily labled a conspiracy nut
3. Send the terror group into any area the US Regime wants to attack
The IS brand is so toxic that the US Regime doesn't even have to worry about having their puppet terror group carry out large scale and very public symbolic terror attacks against US Regime allies. Or even having US Regime aircraft being filmed flying to and from IS held territories without being fired upon.
Any suggestion by the public or media that the US Regime is working hand in hand with IS is met with immediate ridicule.
"Come on!!! You honestly are suggesting we are working with guys who kill people with steamrollers???"

Posted by: R Winner | Jul 8, 2017 4:25:54 PM | 20
james | Jul 8, 2017 2:46:18 PM | 17
The US has some hard times to come and they are surely coming. It was interesting to see the comments at Pat Lang's NK thread. Most that read and comment there are fully aware of what the US has been doing in the world and the lies from their intelligence community, but yet again with NK it was attack, attack ect.
Many there seem to have no understanding where China is at at the present day. In science and tech, China was first to successfully design and produce/deploy the hypersonic glide missile. Another thing I read not long ago was that China's (also European involvement) research on sending entangled protons from satellite to ground stations has been successful. This is the very leading edge of research.
Russia and China are now closely aligned. The cold war was about the USSR which was Russia plus a number of smaller countries. Now these clowns in the US think they can take on China Russia joined. In ten years, China alone will out do the US on its own, in every way, including tech (military and civilian). It will be good to see that day.
Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 8, 2017 4:30:10 PM | 21
@21 Peter AU
Widely off-topic, and apologies, but have you looked at what China is doing with supercomputers? It will render all existing encryption transparent, and it's coming soon (lost the source, sorry no links). Many people say China should take a more active role in current conflicts, but given the order-of-magnitude technologies she is developing currently, it makes great sense for Russia to be the sword and shield right now. When China uncloaks, it'll change a whole slew of paradigms.
~~
Back on topic - thanks, b, for the celebration. It must be hard to liberate an entire city. It stands as a great milestone. Well done, Iraq. More power to your arm as you struggle to evict the Yankee invader.
Posted by: Grieved | Jul 8, 2017 4:44:10 PM | 22
@20 "ISIS in Afghanistan is just a former Taliban faction who decided to fly a different flag, with Afghan secret intelligence service support, and to the great benefit of the corrupt Afghan gov and the American generals who want more money poured into that sinkhole.
ISIS in the Phillipines is MILF with a new, less funny acronym. It's just a brand, it doesn't convey anything except the solemn hope of increased military spending.
Maybe flying the ISIS flag gets you more money form Saudis
Posted by: Pespi | Jul 8, 2017 5:07:42 PM | 23
Grieved 22
Yes, have read a few odds and ends on that. Re The hypersonic glide missile - this has only been reported as both Russia and US can monitor this type of testing. What would be more interesting is what has China developed and deployed that the US cannot monitor? Russia's Kalibre missile took the CIA by surprise.
Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 8, 2017 5:12:49 PM | 24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVGg_5grOTg
Posted by: avi | Jul 8, 2017 7:43:30 PM | 25
I had wanted to put some feelings that I am having about The White Men in Berlin, but I forgot to do that from various reason.
But Pepe Escobar put that brilliantly:
With this ceasefire deal, it’s as if Putin and Lavrov are inviting a losing Washington to be part of a solution that satisfies – sort of – all parties, including Israel and Turkey.
from http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47393.htm
This is not the first time that Moscow is rescuing Washington. Whether the Russians are also considering themselves an "exceptional" so they want to be equal to Big Brother or any other form of racism or anything else is only my guess. Or, Moscow is scared.
It is just puzzling what Washington has done and Moscow still using diplomacy.
Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jul 8, 2017 8:29:48 PM | 26
Mosul was pounded into rubble...at least the central sections were. It took a worse beating than Aleppo. Watching some of the footage on YouTube it looked like hell on earth being stuck in in there. ISIS has been blasted out of Mosul and that fight at least is over is over, but its residents are going to be suffering for years to come. Iraq is still a very fragile and damaged nation, thanks mostly to certain disciples of Leo Strauss and their insane delusions of grandeur, and the sectarian rifts opened up by the invasion are still very much an issue.
To get a sense how Iraqi society collapsed after the invasion I highly recommend a short book, excerpts from a blog actually, by a 16 year-old Iraqi girl in Mosul called, straightforwardly enough, Iraqi Girl: Diary of a Teenage Girl in Iraq. The girl, who didn't want her name published for obvious reasons, is from a middle-class Sunni Arab family (both her parents are doctors IIRC) and the published portion of her diary covers the period from 2004 to 2009. It describes through the eyes of an "average" teenage girl the gradual deterioration of Mosul's civil society and ever present threat of death at the hands of the invading American occupiers or Shia militia who at the time were fighting the invaders and targeting Sunni residents of the city.
Part of the project involved the girl exchanging emails with American high school students and the latter's ignorance is quite staggering. Some of them actually took offense to her not being thrilled with the US troops occupying her city ("they are there to bring you freedom and democracy!"). But what stood out for me was the absolute incomprehension of the realities of war on their part. She was told to "cheer up" and "have a positive attitude" and "we kept a positive attitude after 911." Yeah.
She goes with her family on a holiday in Syria, Damascus and Aleppo, and is thrilled to pieces by the country and its mix of people and wants to move there as soon as she finishes high school. Sectarian division was not an issue at first, at least among the middle-class, and her best friend is a Christian girl and her aunt or uncle is married to a Shi'ite. As the situation deteriorates she begins to see Saddam Hussein is a sympathetic light and is angry when he is executed. She does not like the Bush necons' original "allies" in Iraq, Ahmed Chalabi and his crew of scammers and profiteers, who she sees as marginalizing Sunni Iraqis.
Anyway, the book is a short read and gives a much-needed human, on-the-ground perspective of the events that turned Iraq into what it is today. Last time I visited her blog her sister and her husband had emigrated to Australia and she was stuck in Jordan applying for residence status in Australia and Canada. Her blog is still active and it can be found here..
Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Jul 8, 2017 9:12:19 PM | 27
@26 Chauncey Gardiner
It is just puzzling what Washington has done and Moscow still using diplomacy.
Not really. For one thing, Russia is still much weaker militarily than the United States and do you really want Putin to give up diplomacy and copy American aggression? The Washington cabal would love it if Putin reacted emotionally and did something that would give them an excuse to hit back at Russia and Russian forces.
Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Jul 8, 2017 9:25:12 PM | 28
A bit OT for this thread but very interesting.
Newsweek published a fabricated article about Hezbollah.

Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Jul 8, 2017 9:38:28 PM | 29
To me the sanctions, any of type, are act of war. Period. Official Moscow is saying that economy is, kind of, better off under sanctions. They use internal resources for development etc.
Now just like everything else diplomacy has its limits. How long cay you talk with an idiot? So what are you saying Washington is ready to repeat Pearl Harbor and the Ruskies are too cleaver to be entrapped so they continue to with the game? I guess you are right Moscow has old and experienced diplomacy and they know what they are doing.
Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jul 8, 2017 9:40:13 PM | 30
Chauncey Gardiner | Jul 8, 2017 8:29:48 PM | 26
You should look up Putin's speeches ect on youtube. Right back to his televised speech when Yeltsin stepped down and appointed Putin as interim president. Also Yeltsin's televised speech on appointing Putin. Look at these speeches, the annual Q&A ect and look at what has occured/changed in Russia over the time Putin has been in power.
Putins speech at the 2015 UNGA was also a watershed moment. Compare it to Obama's speech. Look at what has occured in the close to two years since that speech was made.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 8, 2017 9:46:27 PM | 31
If anyone has example that diplomacy is working let me know. Actually I know for one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian–Hittite_peace_treaty but that was than.
Now when we are more "civilized" I can not find a similar example.
Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jul 8, 2017 9:56:41 PM | 32
re 32
Quoting anything from the Daily Mail automatically discredits you, unless you're willing to go in for lengthy source criticism, as to why the story might be true.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 8, 2017 10:02:43 PM | 33
34
Putin does not deal in winners and losers, nor retribution for past deeds. He only deals in change. Ongoing change.
Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 8, 2017 10:11:15 PM | 34
"Not really. For one thing, Russia is still much weaker militarily than the United States and do you really want Putin to give up diplomacy and copy American aggression?"
Exactly. Would you have Putin escalate to nuclear war, where no one wins? Or go head to head with the US, where the Empire can print and pilfer enough money to overwhelm any other nation, short term. But Russia (and China) continually remind us they're playing the long game, and to do that it actually becomes quite important to honor the small details like following international law, respecting the sovereignty of other nations, big or small, etc. Because it will have any effect on the US opinion or actions? Of course not, that ship has sailed. But it is the rest of the world who is watching this battle, and that is the audience Russia hopes to impress with its integrity. Because even the US cannot take on the entire rest of the world at once, so the more Russia can demonstrate to other nations that by sticking together they can stand up to Uncle Sam, the more the tide will turn until it is unstoppable.
Well, at least that's the idea. I've got my fingers crossed, but I'm not holding my breath.
Posted by: J Swift | Jul 9, 2017 12:27:22 AM | 35
"Not really. For one thing, Russia is still much weaker militarily than the United States [...]" & 41
I've heard this trope from the Saker, but can't figure out if he's serious or just being kind of meta-diplomatic. I just don't think it's true at the moment, but there is of course massive amounts of salient data I don't have. Numbers and capabilities.
There was that inane & puerile Stratfor analysis some weeks ago which attempted to quantify & qualify this assertion of relative military weakness. Most salient flaw in that was just bean-counting assets in-theatre (MENA). Like Centcom and USN vs Ru assets in Syria/Mediterranean.
The US Mil has a lot more stuff and a lot more bases. This is meaningless, especially in a full hot war context. That's a missile duel, and everything turns to glass quickly under escalatory pressures. Those are targets.
The unknowns are technological. For example, if the US-Mil is hiding (at least from us the public if not Ru) an ability to shoot down Iskanders, Yars, Kalibrs, etc, to prevail in EW fight, etc, then maybe you could be talking about some kind of primacy. If I have to guess, I don't think they have those capabilities. To pick a random case, consider the Iskanders. Here I follow naive physics intuition and consider the technical problems assumed by the offensive and defensive sides. The Iskander follows a hideously convoluted and high-G trajectory to its target, something traditional ABM defense cannot deal with. You consider the problem of intercepting precisely a missile whose trajectory is essentially random at the level of detail necessary for successful interception.
If you can't stop the Iskanders, forget it. More assets just means more targets. More bases, more targets.
The Russians use diplomacy because they are honorable and dignified, and they don't want to participate in the extermination of the human race. I don't think there is a meaningful gap in contention capabilities militarily, in spite of tremendous asymmetry of disposition.
Posted by: newleaf | Jul 9, 2017 3:17:45 AM | 36
Chauncey @7. ..... the world would be a better place ......". "The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes" Disraeli, "Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." Woodrow Wilson. "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." ?
The collapse of the petrodollar and the consequent "ruin" of America is not going to result in the world being a better place. America is controlled, its a mere puppet in the hands of those who use it to print money for themselves. Until Putin kicks out the banksters and prints debt free currency he's just a puppet of the hidden hand, same with China. Yes at some point the dollar will collapse but it be at the discretion and timing of the hidden hand to their advantage. Another step in their plan.
Posted by: Nobody | Jul 9, 2017 3:24:04 AM | 37
Well said 'b'
Let's not forget Turkey's key role in the fall of Mosul to ISIS, its facilitating funds and arms, that the central bank happened to be holding hundreds of millions of dollars in cash on the day, the smoke-screen 'take over of the Turkish embassy to create an ISIS - Turkey ops centre: remember the 'hostages' released later arrived at AtaTurk airport praising ISIS and the humane and friendly way in which ISIS had looked after them! Thr truck drivers - 32 of them in one convoy - 'kidnapped and highjacked' by ISIS miraculously released without a scratch and again grateful to their trormentors for their humane treatment ... Some Turkish journalists joined the dots at the time and are still rotting in prison - no doubt all Feto'cular, conveniently!
While Turkey and Qatar may be flip flopping like street whores, we should not forget their willing and greedy part in the destruction of Syria and Turkey. And we should not think that Putin, Assad and Rouhani have in any way forgotten these events, even though it may appear at times that they have. As for Al-Jazeera, the sooner it is relegated to the rubbish heap of war-mongering propagandist mouthpiece the better.
On another tack, while the liberation of Mosul is indeed a joyous occasion and one that allows rare hope, why is there not the feeling that the conflict is over. Why do I feel as though it is simply starting to take another form?
Posted by: AtaBrit | Jul 9, 2017 5:11:06 AM | 38
If it is really victory, it is a very hollow one. And almost certain the Kurdish Peshmerga will fill the void and attempt to claim Mosul as their southern outpost. What has been lost, destroyed, stolen, vandalised is incalculable, as is the human loss, suffering, displacement. The region is also poisoned until the end of time (4.5 Billion years) from the depleted uranium weapons used in the "liberation", thus the cancers and birth deformities will increase in orders of magnitude over the horror they already are from 1991 and the continual US-UK bombings over the years between then and 2003, which then added a further vast radioactive burden on the nation and the region.
http://truepublica.org.uk/global/felicity-arbuthnot-mosuls-liberation-another-fallujah-dresden-hiroshima/

Posted by: Felicity | Jul 9, 2017 5:13:48 AM | 39
And I know I pay maybe too much attention to detail, but its in that detail that people exist.
A friend of mine told me the other day that thousands of Syrians were told that there would be a 'border amnesty' for Ramazan Bayram, meaning that Syrians in Turkey could return home to see their families ant be allowed back into Turkey afterwards - the border has been closed to all but militias for ages! Syrians desperate to see their loved ones headed across the border. Of course, when they wanted to come back and gp back to work - often highly exploitative! - they were told that they were not allowed to! People have lost everything a second time! Some people have again been cut off from family members that stayed in Turkey, some will lose everything they have in Turkey when their rental payments are not met the landlords will simply 'take' everything they find, many have lost the only form of income for entire extended families because men or women are not allowed to return ...
So, when Turkey talks as it does about how wonderful it is for taking care of so many refugees ,,, don't believe a word of it!
Posted by: AtaBrit | Jul 9, 2017 5:18:46 AM | 40
Peter AU | Jul 8, 2017 5:12:49 PM | 24
China's success with quantum entangled communication will be a game changer; no need to worry being monitored.
I love how the Usian's have themselves convinced of their superior intelligence and technology.
A good history lesson would quash such hubris and hyperbole.
Posted by: V. Arnold | Jul 9, 2017 5:27:44 AM | 41
newleaf | Jul 9, 2017 3:17:45 AM | 42
Very nice; and I agree w/almost everything you posted.
My nit's to pick are not worth the electrons to state...
Posted by: V. Arnold | Jul 9, 2017 5:36:44 AM | 42
Swift | 41
Excellent comment.
Posted by: AtaBrit | Jul 9, 2017 5:40:21 AM | 43
"The collapse of the petrodollar and the consequent "ruin" of America is not going to result in the world being a better place."
Oh, it definitely will. Just imagine that bunch neo-feudal psychopaths do not have access to printing press anymore. Just imagine that sick society stop producing personalities such as Trump. Or Kardashians, Bezos, Musk, Chris Christie. Just imagine they have to live within its means and they have to work? Zero or near zero interest rate policy will be no more and corporation have no access for fee money. No more Amazon.com, hedge funds and algorithm trading.
More importantly, no more unlimited budget for 16 agencies that call themselves "intelligence" and no more unlimited budget for Pentagram which terrorize the world.
Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jul 9, 2017 6:01:14 AM | 44
@32

I am very impressed with the way Russia and China, (and others) are handling the provocations of the West. There are many valid casus belli for war against the west, and it is not fear of being destroyed that stays their hands. It is their weighting of war with the usa versus continued development of their market strategies.
It costs Russia *nothing* to allow the USA to share any glory. Those that matter are fully aware of transpired events anyway.
Putin has said: "Even 50 years ago, the streets of Leningrad taught me one thing: if a fight is inevitable, go and fight first "
Call me a fanboy, but I believe Putin still believes a war with the west is not inevitable. I don't think he is correct, but I don't fault him for walking the line he is. The world sees the difference in how Russia and the US plays on the world stage, those that pay attention to these types anyways.

When fighting monsters, it's important not to become one.
Most Americans are oblivious to anything not reported on FOX or MSNBC. They have no memories and no empathy of bombs bursting in air or a rockets red glare.
If Mosul is actually freed, there is going to be attention directed at the Kurds isn't there? I think the Kurds (barzani?) in north Iraq are having a referendum or had one recently.
It will be interesting to see how the regions actors handle the Kurdish populations after the battles for Raqqa and Deir el Zor are resolved. With Turkey right in the midst of these countries absolutely refusing a Kurdish state anywhere along its borders, it is an ugly stew.
When fighting monsters, it is important not to become one.
b4real


Posted by: b4real | Jul 9, 2017 10:33:03 AM | 45
Thanks for your link, vergile@3. The linked article embedded there is well worth a long read. It is about Aleppo but would apply in any of the large cities that have had rebel occupation imposed upon them, including, as the article points out, Fallujah back in the day. Sobering, excellent reminder of the death and destruction we have witnessed from afar. And this has to be the ultimate assessment and indictment:
"...Further, in what he certainly thought was a closed door session, U.S. Special Envoy to Syria Michael Ratner made a shocking admission, namely that U.S. and Gulf support for rebels in Aleppo, and Syria more broadly, was likely the prime driver of the conflict, and therefore of the suffering of Syria’s population..."
The prime driver of the conflict.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 9, 2017 11:05:50 AM | 46
b4real @ 51 said:"When fighting monsters, it is important not to become one."
Yep, no doubt, think I'll plagiarize that statement, thanks..
Posted by: ben | Jul 9, 2017 1:59:57 PM | 47
R Winner | 12
Jordan?
Then Merkel clearly wasn't given the heads up since Germany's troops and planes have started leaving Incirlik, in Turkey, for a base in Jordan!
Posted by: AtaBrit | Jul 9, 2017 2:13:56 PM | 48
@ 43
Until Putin kicks out the banksters and prints debt free currency he's just a puppet of the hidden hand, same with China. Yes at some point the dollar will collapse but it be at the discretion and timing of the hidden hand to their advantage. Another step in their plan.
Exactly!....it's All Kabuki theatre, ...as the Old Masonic/Banker
Game runs the table while profits roll in from weapons and narcotics.
V 22 Ospreys will be running Opium around Syria,...US/CIA/Air America not going to leave.
Iraq has numerous video capture of US supply ISUS and run them around.
Abadi is just a shit loser to allow US run such a Evil con in plain sight.
US will now turn Sunni,Kurds,FSA and their special forces against
PMU,IRGC...
The show moves against Shia Cresent and Iran.
Posted by: Brad | Jul 9, 2017 4:21:51 PM | 49
Here's Putin in 2015 talking a complete line of religious Christian-right bullshit:
Putin defends Christianity and condemns anti-Christian West and political correctness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4I7Cnpirw8
Now if Putin is being clever for political purposes, that's one thing.
If he really believes that which he espouses, he is a moron.
I don't believe him to be a moron, but this speech is convincing.
One point: The statement that Christianity (or any religion) is the arbiter of morality in any given society is not true.
Posted by: fast freddy | Jul 9, 2017 4:29:44 PM | 50
@56
How do you know that Freddy? I know the moonies here are predominately self-described atheists, or maybe agnostics, and I know the mere mention of christianity, let alone that being associated with the state, causes many to recoil in horror, and perhaps for a lot of good reasoning. But Iran has ridden to good fortune and has ousted imperialism on the backs of the faithful, and is it a coincidence that Putin's success has councided with a resurgence of eastern orthodoxy? Is it just Christianity that you object to? What about the cult of the leader, a la Stalin, Mao, or Kim?
Ask yourself if you unfairly conflate christianity to imperialism? Protestant zionists here in the states sure have, I know, and catholics have a way to go if they are ever to oust neocons and neoliberals from their membership.
In other words...who cares what Russia does or which God they offer libations to? The God of GDP can never be misunderstood.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 9, 2017 5:04:51 PM | 51
After restoration of capitalism the Russian Orthodox Church is main ally of Putin or the Russian establishment. It is everywhere, even on the Red Square during parade. The head of church is one of the wealthiest person in Russia. I would say as long as they feel insecure at the throne, probably longer than that since restoration of Russia as nation-state where the European White Orthodox Christian is dominant, on the power, race.
Now, it doesn't matter what is Putin belief, that is dominant social relationship between the Russian capitalist class and the rest just like in the West.
Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jul 9, 2017 5:40:41 PM | 52
We have to wait the moment when the Russian establishment announce "Separation religion and state", for now, they still need church.
Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Jul 9, 2017 5:44:45 PM | 53
@56
I listened to that speech (the English subtitles are not that great), to me it makes lot of sense. Nassim Taleb agrees with him too.
It suffices for an intransigent minority –a certain type of intransigent minorities –to reach a minutely small level, say three or four percent of the total population, for the entire population to have to submit to their preferences.
Think of a church as an expert group that allows certain groups, and prevents some groups to do it.

Posted by: hopehely | Jul 9, 2017 5:55:28 PM | 54
b4real @51
It costs Russia *nothing* to allow the USA to share any glory
Yes, but it also costs neocons *nothing* to kill, maim, torture, terrorize, exploit, and engage in nuclear brinkmanship. When has ANYONE ever been held accountable?
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 9, 2017 6:05:23 PM | 55
@47

China's success with quantum entangled communication will be a game changer; no need to worry being monitored.

That technology will allow them to detect a tap, but it will not tell them who did it nor it can prevent the tampering. It is nice to know they are being watched, but if they can't do something about it, its usefulness if a bit diminished. The other side just needs to make sure that the communication is randomly interfered with, and the detection becomes useless. So, they still need to worry.
Posted by: hopehely | Jul 9, 2017 6:22:39 PM | 56
@61
The day after the United States surrenders there is going to be accountability.
Posted by: b4real | Jul 9, 2017 6:54:38 PM | 57
Here here Signor Elijiah. Now hoping these takfiris in Syria will meet their inevitable fate. Really dissapointed in the Kurds in Syria they went and pulled a Barzani on the Syrians and became anglo-zionist tools for more decption they may wage war. PMU and The SAA are coordinating efforts in and along the Der -Ezur corridor so it looks like check soon to be mate.
Posted by: falcemartello | Jul 9, 2017 7:42:10 PM | 58
62
As I understand it, quantum entanglement is particles of light. If an entangled pair are sent to separate ground stations from a satellite, one of the particles would have to be physically intercepted between the satellite and ground station?
Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 9, 2017 7:42:14 PM | 59
=>> Peter AU | Jul 9, 2017 7:42:14 PM | 65
Quantum entanglement is truly strange. Lots of different kinds of particles can be entangled in various different ways.
Perhaps this will not be very useful for conveying secret messages. The main thing about it is that something wild and awesome is likely to evolve out of the study of this very complex effect. But in some sense it's not quite so complex, although it is, after all, advanced physics.
Posted by: blues | Jul 9, 2017 9:31:22 PM | 60
@56 fast freddy
Posted by: Grieved | Jul 9, 2017 9:38:00 PM | 61
Obviously hit the wrong key...
@56 - that was 2013 at Valdai. I thought it was pretty courageous at the time, and it takes on even more resonance now, for me at least. Your postulate that a nation's underlying religion does NOT form the basis for its morality seems exactly incorrect to me - the opposite I think is the true case.
Putin of course is speaking as an Orthodox Christian, and referring to the Orthodox religion of Russia. One can sense his dismay at what the Roman Christianity in the west has allowed to happen, where all values have become relativized - an excellent choice of word by Putin, and a great description of the western spiritual and moral malaise, in my opinion.
Not to go too far away from your point or too deeply down the rabbit hole, but there are those who characterize the seemingly eternal western hatred of Russia as a war of Rome against Constantinople, as a desire from the Vatican for supreme rule of Christianity globally - an ambition never to be realized as long as Russia remains true to its moral roots, the very thing that Putin says the west has failed to do.
Posted by: Grieved | Jul 9, 2017 9:47:51 PM | 62
@21 peter au... thanks peter.. i agree with you!
Posted by: james | Jul 9, 2017 10:37:57 PM | 63
I wonder how much the experience with Hitler and the Geneva Conventions still affects Russia. The Soviet Union did not sign the Geneva Conventions and Hitler used that as an excuse to justify his horrible treatment of Soviet P.O.W.s. Mind you, there are some who say that the first incidents of bad treatments were by Soviets on German prisoners, but still, I've read two or three history books that claim the non-participation of the USSR as Hitler's rationale.
Posted by: mischi | Jul 9, 2017 10:47:35 PM | 64
mischi 64
Hitler would say anything and did ! Winter was coming on and Moscow with its 4 month growing season was struggling to feed itself - even bitterly cold Paris gets a 9 month growing season -
the revisionist view that the Soviets were planning to attack the West is nonsense.
Stalin clearly signaled to Hitler in early 1941 that he was willing to do a deal that would have been very much a betrayl of S
Posted by: ashley albanese | Jul 10, 2017 7:23:38 AM | 65
oops - the button jumped .
The sentence ends ' would have been a betrayl of Soviet interests ' . In the context of the times Soviet behaviour , stratagies were reasonable . BUT Stalin's timidity goaded Germany onwards into her bloody over reach and follies .
Posted by: ashley albanese | Jul 10, 2017 7:30:55 AM | 66

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